Comments on: Overnight printing ‘won’t kill newspapers’ – Higgerson

By: Steve Dyson

Steve Dyson — Tue, 22 May 2012 14:05:17 +0000

Yes, Fencehopper… but the importance of this thread was the debate on overnight. It wasn’t, of course, the only cause of problems. But any pretence that it played no role is daft.

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By: Fencehopper

Fencehopper — Tue, 22 May 2012 11:12:31 +0000

So, in summary, we seem to agree it’s a multitude of sins that are to blame?

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By: Mej

Mej — Mon, 21 May 2012 17:33:51 +0000

I take your point about the E and S, Steve, but look across to Shropshire and you’ll see how the Star is being stripped to the bone to protect the ‘mother ship’ E and S. Sacrifices are bring made, and a good, multi-edition paper, with talented staff is suffering.

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By: Last one out - switch off the light

Last one out - switch off the light — Wed, 16 May 2012 15:08:48 +0000

Hi TMM – angry – trust me if I was you would know about it. I was merely stating my point of view after all we are supposed to be able to do so what with a “free” press and all. By the way you can actually sell “an empty product” they are called free sheets – although I personally hate that term.
All they ever had as far as editorial was concerned was unused items that the paid fors did not use and free community reporters who did a weekly round up, oh and a few listings. Now I do know that there have been a very few exceptions to this but having worked across over 100 free titles I never saw an editorially led one.
It could be argued that the market is now less saturated ( how many titles have closed over the past two years) it’s just moved across to other platforms and most regionals have been unable to produce a commercially viable digital product that can actually make any serious revenue – FACT
As far as overnight printing goes – I do know that my company went to overnight because they had sold press slots to other publishers including “Nationals” and made rather healthy profits from doing so and that was well over ten years ago!
Cura ut valeas

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By: Ex TMM

Ex TMM — Wed, 16 May 2012 14:56:05 +0000

Tog, I will quote myself here: “newspapers need sales execs just as much as they need journalists – you can’t sell an empty product, and your product can’t sell itself”. So your question on what drives advertisers, as if I don’t know what I’m talking about is slightly pointless – of course you need good content or you can’t sell your paper.

But, having previously worked in regional newspapers (not sales I might add) and seen sales figures and advertising figures on a regular basis, I can tell you now, revenue from advertising within regionals such as the Birmingham Mail completely trumps any revenue from actual newspaper sales, as much as you, and I don’t like it. That’s all I’m saying.

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By: Tog

Tog — Wed, 16 May 2012 14:26:45 +0000

Ex TMM, your understanding seems typical of a non-journalist. ‘…it is not their stories that keep bringing money in these days, it is advertising’.

So what do you think drives advertisers – it couldn’t be good quality content, could it?

That’s also why digital advertising on newspaper websites isn’t exactly setting the world on fire because the content is the same rubbish as in the print editions.

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By: Ex TMM

Ex TMM — Wed, 16 May 2012 12:52:44 +0000

@ Last one out – switch off the light: Read the rest of my post before you spout out angry comments on sales execs. Newspapers need sales execs just as much as they need journalists – you can’t sell an empty product, and your product can’t sell itself in a saturated market.

My point was David is a trained journalist not a newspaper sales exec, as he was compared to under no great light in a comment earlier on. Facts straight first please.

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By: Ill-informed

Ill-informed — Wed, 16 May 2012 12:20:45 +0000

‘Curious’ suggests that the evidence that overnight printing is damaging sales is in the circulation figures. I disagree. My analysis of the ABCs indicates that the sales performances of regional dailies that have switched to overnight are no better or worse than the handful of regional dailies that print and publish on the same day. Given their coverage of the debate, perhaps HTFP might examine this as part of their analysis the next time the ABCs are released.

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By: Last one out - switch off the light

Last one out - switch off the light — Wed, 16 May 2012 12:05:15 +0000

By TMM – “David is most certainly not comparable to a newspaper sales exec”!!!!!!!!!!!
Without the lowly sales teams be they circulation or advertising there would be NO newspapers at ALL.
Too many “senior execs” have never been on the “front line” or if they have it was so long ago that they can’t remember what it’s like to look your customers in the eye! Of course the real issue now is that these companies are totally run by men and women in grey suits who don’t have a clue about what makes a good paper be it in print or FREE digital.

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By: Spanner

Spanner — Wed, 16 May 2012 11:52:31 +0000

Overnight didn’t kill the Birmingham Mail it was a disastrous re design and change of edition structure in 2006 that really started the rot.

Just shows what happens when you get a bunch of mincing scousers involved in a place they have never lived.

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By: David Higgerson

David Higgerson — Wed, 16 May 2012 11:36:41 +0000

There are a lot of assumptions being made in the comments here – I’d suggest people read the whole post I wrote, because that provides more context to what I’m saying.

I’m not arguing against on-day printing and the benefits it brings, I’m making the point that the value of on-day printing is diminished in a world where news travels to people wherever they are, via websites or social networks. I’m also making the point that many, many local newspapers haven’t become ‘all old news’ as a result of going overnight, because they still set their local news agenda.

It’s a bit disappointing to hear comments along the lines of ‘oh he works for X, of course that’s what he’d say’. The blog is, as the article says, a personal blog. It isn’t pre-approved by anyone. Likewise, suggestions about ‘not being a journalist’ are wide of the mark, as, I hope, the blog demonstrates.

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By: Hack, the north

Hack, the north — Wed, 16 May 2012 11:26:21 +0000

To those crtiticising David for being part of the TM hierarchy or a ‘non-journalist,’ you really should do your research. I worked with David when he was 17 and had already been working as a reporter on a local newspaper in a voluntary capacity for a couple of years. He is a top-class journalist, has worked his way up from the very bottom and is actually one of the only execs at TM who is on the side of the journalists.

I don’t agree with him on this subject, but to dismiss his views as simply those from another faceless exec is simply wrong.

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By: Cherrywonder

Cherrywonder — Wed, 16 May 2012 11:10:58 +0000

One of the reasons everything’s gone so horribly wrong is because of directors spouting corporate-speak while closing their minds to the reality of the situation.
This from Higgerson is just par for the course or, er, corpse.

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By: redundant hack

redundant hack — Wed, 16 May 2012 10:22:44 +0000

Well said Steve. When I worked for the E and S in the 80s, I could be sent to cover a 2pm inquest and it would be billed and in the final edition as I walked back to the office. Now that’s a NEWSpaper!

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By: Ex TMM

Ex TMM — Wed, 16 May 2012 10:07:08 +0000

The declining circulation is the reason that newspaper titles are forced to go overnight because doing it this way cuts costs that they could no longer afford. This may then contribute to the decline, but the fact is, the newspaper’s circulation would have declined anyway. And as much as any journalist may not want to admit it, it is not their stories that keep bringing money in these days, it is advertising. If the circulation declines, the paper is a harder sell, so changes have to be made.

Newspapers are not what they used to be because of the evolution of media as a whole. Whatever time of day a newspaper is printed, it is now always going to be slower to ‘break’ it than online media. And attacking David with regards to digital is irrelevant because he has not denied that digital is one of the resons for this decline.

And just a note to ‘Ex hack’;David is most certainly not comparable to a newspaper sales exec, unless you see any of those heading up the strategy and running of Trinity Mirror’s online news sites.

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By: Steve Dyson

Steve Dyson — Wed, 16 May 2012 09:54:52 +0000

David and I differ on some – not all – elements of this debate. It’s healthy to consider alternative operations at times of change. One is the Wolverhampton Express and Star (gosh, as a former Mail editor it almost chokes me to say this!). The E&S is the only UK regional daily with full-price sales of more than 100,000 a day, six days a week. How do they do it? Editor Adrian Faber says it’s partly due to the fact that “we are a same-day newspaper that provides our readers with all the local and national news they need.” Yes, the UK’s best-selling regional daily just happens to be a ‘live’ evening paper with multi editions. Today’s news today. So are they print dinosaurs? Not exactly… While looking after traditional readers, Expressandstar.com also has the fastest growing regional newspaper website in the UK, (ABC electronic audit, July to Dec 2011, biggest increase in average monthly traffic to 788,444 unique users.) The E&S strategy is not the only answer, but it’s an alternative one from an independent player, and therefore should be considered along with the plc, ‘profits-for-shareholders come first’ perspective.

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By: redundant hack

redundant hack — Wed, 16 May 2012 09:54:30 +0000

Non-journalists have been spouting this rubbish for years. I wish I had a pound for every time a newspaper sales manager promised us an evening paper would sell more if it got into the shops earlier. Management fell for it. Result: earlier and earlier deadlines and eventually overnight production. Readers deserted us in droves.

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By: Ethel Gee

Ethel Gee — Wed, 16 May 2012 09:52:52 +0000

To say that regional evening newspapers have not been harmed by publishing overnight is nonsense. I gave up buying a regional “evening” when they started to appear on the news stands at the same time as the nationals. Why pay for a regional evening when the cost could go towards the cost of a top quality national that was almost certainly printed after the regional?
The sad truth is that regional evening newspapers are products that are past their sell-by date in every respect. They cannot possibly compete with the quality of the nationals, especially having suffered such savage cuts in staff and talent.
As for the web riding to the rescue? They were telling us that back in 2000. I will believe it, when somebody brings forward a model that can fund a regional evening – all on its own.

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By: claude

claude — Wed, 16 May 2012 09:49:12 +0000

So basically Trinity Mirror director says Trinity Mirror’s decision to move all the evening papers to morning papers is not a bad thing.

Glad that’s cleared up then.

Next week Trinity Mirror director says making Trinity Mirror daily papers into weekly papers is also a good thing.

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By: Tog

Tog — Wed, 16 May 2012 09:17:33 +0000

Higgerson would say that, wouldn’t he? The T-M hierarchy aren’t about to admit that their strategies are just wrong, but never mind, revenues and share price speak volumes and Sly Bailey falling on her sword is not going fix the problem. Speaking of splashes, I can’t remember the last time the Evening Chronicle splashed a real news story, not since it went overnight anyway. That’s the whole point isn’t it – to be News it has to be New.

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